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Following the killing of George Floyd, there have been growing calls to defund the police. Through the eyes of an ex-con who successfully turned his life around, why is this dangerous and counterproductive? What are real strategies to mend relations between law enforcement and communities that distrust the police? And, how can we as a society reduce violent crime and help formerly incarcerated Americans build a better future? In this episode, we sit down with Jon Ponder, Founder and CEO of HOPE for Prisoners.